07:00:52 <tahvo> #startmeeting MeeGo QA Weekly 2011-Apr-19
07:00:52 <MeeGoMeetBot> Meeting started Tue Apr 19 07:00:52 2011 UTC.  The chair is tahvo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:00:52 <MeeGoMeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:01:35 <tahvo> Hello and welcome all ... we are having quite many items today so lets start going them through
07:01:47 <tahvo> #topic Opening and general news
07:02:11 <tahvo> Is there some items that qa leads want to raise here?
07:02:26 <May> MeeGo 1.2 branch and release dates
07:02:35 <May> Jerry will talk about it and share QA plan
07:02:53 <May> 4/29 branch and 5/19 release
07:03:31 <May> I would let Jerry to talk about details later
07:03:53 <tahvo> Okay ... lets discuss this more when that topic is handled.
07:03:54 <May> Jerry, would you also update MCTS
07:04:05 <May> Yes.
07:04:10 <jerry_yu> yes
07:04:31 <tahvo> Another things is new meego qa tools lead. And that has its own topic reserved.
07:04:46 <jerry_yu> actually I don't have much to update for MCTS.  In short term, we will focus on stablizing the test cases
07:05:01 <tahvo> So to the actions --- shall we?
07:05:14 <jerry_yu> Jeff will take maintainer role of MCTS after Matti left.
07:05:15 <May> Sure
07:05:32 <tahvo> #topic Actions from previous meetings (2011-04-12)
07:05:45 <tahvo> #info 1. tahvo to do initial update for Quality/Test_areas_and_types wiki page according agreements. Others to contribute with definitions.
07:05:48 <yann_a> Sorry to bother you what do you mean by stabilizing?
07:06:25 <tahvo> yann_a : lets continue MCTS later on
07:06:28 <FanZhao> tahvo: I checked the test types wiki page and it looks good to me
07:06:33 <yann_a> ok
07:07:06 <tahvo> FanZhao: And surely we can continue improving them later on.
07:07:18 <FanZhao> tahvo: Sure
07:07:20 <tahvo> Can we close this action ?
07:07:21 <yann_a> tahvo: I agree also : the defintion on updated wiki page sounds fine to me
07:07:41 <yann_a> yes
07:07:42 <FanZhao> Yes I think we can close this action
07:07:48 <tahvo> #agreed action 1. can be closed
07:08:15 <tahvo> #info 2. tahvo to discuss efficiency area through with ones commenting here
07:08:47 <tahvo> #info Proposal made to wiki and email to meego-qa sent out.
07:09:23 <tahvo> Again we can tune it up later --- proposing to close this one.
07:10:07 <timoph> yep.
07:10:19 <May> Sounds good. Thanks.
07:10:27 <yann_a> agreed
07:10:31 <timoph> at least some of them will need a bit more practical explanations but that can be done later
07:11:22 <tahvo> Yeh --- we need to make these more practical but that is tuning up. My main target was to have one test type there and then some details under that.
07:12:22 <tahvo> timoph : do you already concrete proposal on your mind? And you can put that on wiki?
07:12:49 <tahvo> #agreed action 2. can be closed
07:12:53 <timoph> nothing that concrete but I can take a look at it
07:13:19 <timoph> (and we're having problems with wiki's php session from our subnet currently so can't edit it)
07:13:33 <tahvo> timoph : do you want to have action or are capable proceeding without it ? ;)
07:13:54 <timoph> I can take AP on that
07:14:48 <tahvo> #action timoph to improve the efficiency/performance area definitions on http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Test_areas_and_types
07:15:21 <tahvo> timoph : if you cannot edit the page then you can send your proposal to me and I can put it in
07:15:46 <timoph> tahvo: ok
07:15:53 <tahvo> #info 3. tahvo to discuss reliaibility area through with ones commenting here
07:16:50 <tahvo> #info Initial definition made and email sent out to meego-qa. The base is taken from Reliability Engineering
07:17:09 <tahvo> Any major comments on this?
07:17:21 <tahvo> Or even small ones :)
07:18:00 <May> No from me. we can discuss feedback later through emails.
07:18:40 <tahvo> So we can close also this one?
07:19:22 <May> yes since more comments now.
07:19:28 <tahvo> #agreed action 3. can be closed
07:19:29 <May> no comments.
07:19:58 <tahvo> #topic Closing agreements for Test Types
07:20:14 <tahvo> #info See definitions in http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Test_areas_and_types
07:20:38 <yann_a> one quick question here, testing at system limit is belonging to low resource in general?
07:21:23 <tahvo> Any additional actions we want to make? In addition to items discussed through actions I put initial definitions for user experience, maintainability and portability there.
07:22:38 <tahvo> yann_a : are you meaning that you want to find a limit or check out that it is not causing problems?
07:23:32 <May> Regarding User Experience, some of our engineers will have comments, we will send out feedback through emails.
07:23:39 <yann_a> no, I mean: you are doing test when you reaching some of limit of the system (however, we can continue discussion here by email to save meeting time)
07:24:04 <tahvo> yann_a : let's continue with details by email.
07:24:10 <yann_a> ok
07:24:17 <tahvo> May : good ... lets continue that too on email-
07:24:59 <iekku> May, about the ux, there has been comments on bugs that certain things aren't supported anymore in the intel side
07:25:34 <tahvo> So we do not need any actions to be written for this anymore? So we can say that this page is now ready for 1st review?
07:25:40 <iekku> May, so could we also share information about that on email?
07:26:15 <timoph> tahvo: we can
07:26:15 <May> iekku, what bugs are you talking about? Give me context, i will try to answer if I can.
07:26:16 <yann_a> agree
07:26:22 <FanZhao> iekku: do you have the bug number?
07:26:34 <iekku> May, i will try to find
07:26:36 <tahvo> iekku, May, FanZhao : please continue either on meego-qa or email.
07:26:46 <iekku> tahvo, ok :)
07:26:52 <May> yes. let's on email.
07:26:53 <FanZhao> tahvo: sure
07:27:37 <tahvo> To next topic then?
07:28:08 <FanZhao> tahvo: yes please
07:28:51 <tahvo> Can we switch order and take 1.2 release things at this point?
07:29:11 <timoph> fine by me
07:29:17 <May> agree.
07:29:17 <tahvo> #topic MeeGo 1.2 release QA Plan sharing(Jerry)
07:29:27 <tahvo> Jerry : the floor is yours.
07:29:37 <jerry_yu> thanks
07:29:57 <jerry_yu> ok. we all should notice the release plan from meego release team
07:30:07 <jerry_yu> basically 4/29 will branch 1.2
07:30:17 <jerry_yu> 5/19 will release 1.2
07:30:29 <tahvo> Is there link to info available?
07:30:58 <jerry_yu> i think it should be updated in release plan wiki on meego.com
07:31:09 <tahvo> http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2 ?
07:31:29 <timoph> yep
07:31:34 <jerry_yu> yes. i think so
07:31:41 <timoph> that has those dates defined
07:31:59 <tahvo> #info see details and dates from http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2
07:32:02 <jerry_yu> basically the weekly images between 4/26 and 5/19 are release candidates.
07:32:25 <tahvo> jerry_yu : anything special that one is expecting to happen on qa side?
07:32:58 <jerry_yu> the QA plan in mind is we will have full-pass on 4/26 image (just before branch) to report out as many bugs as we can
07:33:27 <timoph> sounds reasonable
07:33:43 <jerry_yu> actually i depends on what we want to provide:)
07:34:04 <tahvo> So full pass for Core OS. Good. And we are aiming to check out the features and mark them as verified?
07:34:10 <jerry_yu> we will aslo propose release blocker with flag "meego_release_blocker" before 4/29
07:34:32 <yann_a> jerry_yu : are we getting release for all verticals by that date ?
07:35:28 <jerry_yu> Based on my current knowledge, netbook and IVI will be part of 1.2 release for sure.
07:35:57 <rajala_rst> In UX handset side we will be concentrating on key feature testing of weekly releases so those release candidates.
07:36:01 <tahvo> Who is making the decision about release_blocker? And where are these decision made/recorded?
07:36:04 <yann_a> on your link it is indicating core, IVI and handset (on the bottom) for feature
07:36:35 <FanZhao> rajala_rst: I don't think handset reference UX will be target for 1.2 release per the release plan
07:36:43 <jerry_yu> ok. it think it's abotu N900 DE?
07:37:18 <May> Will N900 DE release be aligned with MeeGo 1.2?
07:37:34 <May> tahvo, do you have idea about it?
07:37:45 <jerry_yu> i notice N900 also has its own release blocker flag. hence i suppose each vertical PM will make judgement call to accept which of them should be blocer.
07:38:20 <timoph> N900 DE is based from 1.2 so not tied to same release times
07:38:37 <rajala_rst> DE release has own schedules. Those are not alligned with 1.2.
07:38:39 <jerry_yu> #info we can use meego_release_blocker flag to propose 1.2 release blocker now
07:38:50 <May> OK.
07:39:02 <yann_a> ok
07:39:10 <jerry_yu> #info N900 DE release has own schedule will use its own blocker flag.
07:40:00 <May> Shall we move on if no other questions about MeeGo 1.2?
07:40:03 <yann_a> so, no handset release for 1.2
07:41:18 <tahvo> yann_a : no handset release for 1.2 --- question or comment?
07:41:32 <May> tahvo, move to next one? Still a few other topics.
07:41:42 <jerry_yu> i'm done. just remind team to propsoe release blocker before 4/29. after release team will apply change control process.
07:42:07 <timoph> AFAIK there will be handset 1.2 at least I haven't heard that there won't be
07:42:21 <jarnoteivas_> yes I think so too
07:42:28 <tahvo> #info propose release blocker before 4/29. after release team will apply change control process.
07:42:51 <tahvo> now to next topic - shall we?
07:42:57 <jerry_yu> ok
07:43:01 <May> Yes. pls.
07:43:11 <tahvo> #topic QA-Tools update - QA tools lead
07:43:14 <yann_a> ttimoph : ok
07:43:54 <timakima> i think timoph would make a good lead, considering the merits and good work he's done with the community and qa tools
07:44:06 <May> QA tools is one big project and may be difficult to be owned by one people in the current situation, so I would propose co-lead model.
07:44:28 <yann_a> May : agreed
07:44:32 <timoph> May: yes
07:44:38 <FanZhao> Agree with May
07:44:39 <May> We will have more QA tools and utilities to be published.
07:44:40 <timakima> that would be good too
07:44:55 <timoph> as long as the communication works between the two
07:45:01 <rikhalon> May: i agree
07:45:10 <May> Yes. For sure.
07:45:11 <timakima> that would support better communication
07:45:35 <May> I would propose Jing Wang (our QA architect) to be one of the lead for QA tool.
07:45:53 <tahvo> #info Ville Ilvonen left to do other projects. Timo Mäkimattila (timoph) is replacing vilvo.
07:46:03 <timoph> no...
07:46:04 <timakima> no, that's timo härkönen :)
07:46:10 <timoph> :)
07:46:11 <iekku> ;D
07:46:22 <May> tahvo, we agreed co-lead model. So it should be Timo and Jing.
07:46:27 <tahvo> Sorry ... wrong name :)
07:46:32 <tahvo> Shame on me.
07:46:33 <timoph> tahvo: do #undo
07:47:06 <tahvo> #undo
07:47:06 <MeeGoMeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x83f7b0c>
07:47:19 <May> I don't hear any disagreement about my proposal.
07:47:31 <May> Shall we make decision here?
07:47:41 <timakima> it's a proposal for tsg, right?
07:47:42 <yann_a> it sounds fine to me
07:47:54 <rikhalon> yes, propose to TSG
07:47:57 <timoph> sound good to me. looking forward to good collabration and discussion
07:48:12 <yann_a> btw, if both co*lead disagree on a point who is taking decision then?
07:48:13 <May> Let's agreed here first. Then ,we can submit to TSG.
07:48:43 <May> then we can discuss and close it in this meeting :)
07:49:00 <jerry_yu> agree with May.
07:49:00 <timoph> yann_a: this meeting would be the place then
07:49:24 <jerry_yu> they should be smart enough to know how co-work in a project
07:49:46 <yann_a> ok, that's fine to me
07:49:49 <jerry_yu> but if we do have such case, this meeting could resolve that.:)
07:49:54 <tahvo> #info Ville Ilvonen left to do other projects. Timo Mäkimattila and Jing Wang are now proposed to take lead on tools area.
07:50:02 <timoph> haha
07:50:04 <rikhalon> :)
07:50:08 <timakima> no, it should be "Timo Härkönen"
07:50:10 <timakima> :D
07:50:21 <Ionut> :)
07:50:27 <iekku> one more try tahvo
07:50:29 * timakima is quite happy to steal the credit from timoph though :)
07:50:41 <tahvo> #undo
07:50:41 <MeeGoMeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x83fb54c>
07:50:46 <rikhalon> twice
07:50:51 <jerry_yu> Tahvo, you need a cup of coffee:)
07:51:05 <tahvo> Ville Ilvonen left to do other projects. Timo Härkönen and Jing Wang are now proposed to take lead on tools area.
07:51:18 <tahvo> #info Ville Ilvonen left to do other projects. Timo Härkönen and Jing Wang are now proposed to take lead on tools area.
07:51:50 <tahvo> Yes - I need coffee ...
07:51:58 <jerry_yu> ok. can we move on to talk MCTS?
07:51:58 <timakima> who will take action to promote that on the tsg, tahvo?
07:52:19 <tahvo> I suppose I need to take action on proposing this to tsg.
07:52:36 <May> Good. Thanks Tahvo.
07:52:57 <timakima> thanks
07:53:20 <tahvo> #action tahvo to propose Timo Härkonen and Jing Wang as QA leads for next TSG meeting
07:53:36 <tahvo> #undo
07:53:36 <MeeGoMeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x848354c>
07:53:46 <tahvo> #action tahvo to propose Timo Härkonen and Jing Wang as QA tools leads for next TSG meeting
07:53:58 <May> A few mins left, shall we move on to next topic?
07:54:11 <tahvo> Coffee --- really. to next topic then.
07:54:30 <tahvo> #topic Closing agreements for rule about bug verification
07:54:57 <tahvo> Is this now still needing some time or decision? Did we discuss this through already?
07:55:41 <May> It has been discussed on emails for a few days, it's OK to close it now.
07:55:46 <iekku> ericlr said no to closing bugs without verification
07:55:49 <jarnoteivas_> I think thats discussed allready
07:56:22 <rajala_rst> If reporter cannot verify the bug, QA teams should help in verification, right?
07:56:29 <timoph> yep
07:56:36 <iekku> yes
07:56:46 <tahvo> #info discussed and agreed on meego-qa email
07:56:54 <May> yes. Sometimes QA cannot verify due to various reasons ,code level issue or lack of proper HW etc..
07:56:59 <tahvo> next topic then?
07:57:10 <yann_a> yes
07:57:13 <tahvo> #topic Update to 1.2 QA Situation (QA Leads)
07:57:36 <May> tahvo, this topic has been agreed and closed now?
07:57:55 <tahvo> Could we made this similar way than last week? So I copy paste then information from wiki to email and send it out to meego-qa?
07:58:08 <timoph> yes
07:58:14 <May> Just want to confirm my understanding about bug verification.
07:58:38 <tahvo> Bug verification I suppose is agreed on sufficient level.
07:58:49 <May> I like the idea to have QA leads to publish status through emails. In this meeting, we could focus on open and decision.
07:59:12 <May> Good.
07:59:17 <tahvo> #info http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Meetings/QA_leads_update_1.2
07:59:22 <rajala_rst> Fine by me
07:59:44 <tahvo> Ready to end meeting? New topics next week.
08:00:00 <May> Good meeting, we closed quite a few topics. Talk to you next time.
08:00:02 <rajala_rst> thanks, bye!
08:00:07 <timoph> o/
08:00:09 <Ionut> bye
08:00:10 <tahvo> #endmeeting